Am recording a very interesting conversation that happened on the IIM Calcutta Pune Alums group in Sep 2023. Disclaimer – my contribution to this conversation was zero. But I liked it enough to paste all of that together and mark it for future use by putting it in a blog post. Thanks to 15 of my Jokan friends for the ideas. Singling out Mayank Agarwal, who started this thread. Some of Mayank’s posts are italicised.

I know some people on this group have turned vegan. Thinking of it for myself too though paneer and curd are  weaknesses. What are the main health benefits of turning vegan? Would love to hear. No, not religious or moral standpoints.

Vegan food helps to control insulin resistance..which otherwise leads to diabetic conditions….one of the benefits. Close relative in US turned vegan as she had a cyst twice. Seems turning vegan reduces chances of cancer. Stopping milk based products reduces weight too. But then you have to consider alternate source of protein coz dal alone won’t be able to meet your protein needs.

Cancer is my main driver for vegan attempt. And, reducing sugar.

There is a variant of vegan diet called PBWF (plant based whole food) which comes highly recommended by a close friend of mine. There is an enthusiastic bunch of IIMC alumni who report excellent life changes after adopting this. 

On this note, would recommend watching “Live to 100: Secrets of the Blue Zones” on Netflix

I feel the same. Want to reduce non veg to a bare minimum,  say once a week. But total giving up is not possible.

Sugar ( white refined) you should stop – cold turkey! Use coconut sugar, or mishri and jaggery! Wherever possible. And if possible just stop all biscuits / maida products ..replace with whole wheat and whole grains …and see the difference no need to go fully vegan at all. I have been following this for a bout a month and there is marked improvement in every aspect.

Atul and myself both are vegans. Myself even more as i do not touch wheat. Giving up on milk and products totally will lead to b8r energy lvls. B8r gut health. Reduced blood glucose. B8r weight management. Giving up on wheat gives a lot of benefits as well

Wheat is non-vegan??

Wheat is additional. Ie i said i have left wheat as well. Btw nearly half of indians are lactose intolerant. Most of them unaware

So what did you substitute wheat with ? People with sugar issues, reduce rice and eat rotis. What to eat if no wheat? Some form of carb is needed , no ?

There is no such thing as essential carbs fwiw. Fibers, fats, proteins all essential. You can have millets. Bajra, Jowar roti, Ragi balls. Bhakri I guess. In my view that’s the easy part of these healthy diets. At least for the one eating, if not for the one making them.

There is no credible reason to quit wheat unless one is intolerant to gluten (Celiac disease). Ye sab maya hai

I started eating wheat base pizza because maida is evil. Can’t have pizza without base.

I eat wheat in moderation and only in 1st half…dont have it at dinner.  I’ve added ragi and bhakri which I would eat infrequently I am trying to eat more frequrntly.   But it’s a long way before it gets easy ( purely because I’m so used to making and eating rotis) …however maida I’ve started avoiding as best possible…my kryptonite is pav

Wheat is worse than rice. It also depends on how and which rice you consume it.  Wheat does inflame your gut. Ppl who jave stopped eating in the night would have seen the difference. Instead of wheat eat ragi/bajra/jowar/besan/motth and other millets.

Better gut health and overall health. I am doing a gut healing program. One of the main tenets is gluten free, dairy free, low fat diet.

And typically it is not the wheat causing the problem, but the pesticides such as glyphosate. Organic wheat could help overcome the symptoms of gluten intolerance.

Lots of fruits and vegetables and lentils in limited quantities. Millets also in limited quantities. Also rice can be taken.

Check out the multitude of vegan horror stories before turning one:

https://studyfinds.org/eating-meat-again-saved-life/

It is safe to eat everything that our parents and grandparents ate. Faddist diets can harm us more then we realise.

We no more get the same wheat now which our grandparents ate. It’s genetically modified or contains pesticides. The gluten percentage is higher now. Same prob with soya and corn. They are also genetically modified mostly

Good point. If i tell my Ma all this, she will say – just eat everything in moderation, sleep well, exercise well.

The only thing is what is the definition of moderation? What is the frame of reference for that moderation? 

One has to decide personally

Unlike the us in india the vegan diet was never a fad but a normal diet. For example our great grandparents never ate wheat. India used to import wheat till the late 60s. During 65war shastriji asked people to fast once a week so that the wheat stock could be given to the army. 

Wheat farming in india was unable to get the yields like us russia or australia as the temp is much higher in india

Milk was originally used as a medicine or a solvent for diff medicines and given to ailing ppl.

Curd /ghee  has been popularly consumed. 

Unfortunately milk that we get now is produced using chemicals (imnjection to cattle) that are causing problems for kids and even adults.

Cows Milk is said to be aajanma satmya. Lactose intolerance is the issue with the body not with milk

Exactly. Human body is not meant to drink cow’s milk

I wonder how much milk do adults really consume. I mean I don’t drink milk as such..I have it in tea or coffee or with cornflakes …or an occasional Haldi milk for a cold / sorethroat..

This is a strange way of looking at diet. It’s a very personal preference IMHO. What does it matter what my grandfathers ate (incidentally i never got to meet them)? My parents have eaten wheat and rice as long as they have lived and the same pattern continues at home now. So that’s the benchmark.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10096482/

How come? Wheat has reference in Ayurveda classic texts, godhuma is the sanskrit name

@Allergy- of any type eg gluten, milk protein caseine etc, its not an issue with the thing, its an issue with the body. Many a times we try to fix things outside our body.   few ppl would have genuine allergy (systemic reasons) for others we need to make changes in our body. Anything and everything can cause a problem like ghee, meat, brinjal, tomato even water

Gluten intolerance is not the same as gluten allergy and test results may not be positive sometimes

Lactose intolerance is endemic. Nearly half the people in india are intolerant.

On wheat. From harrapan times punjab / Sindh region has produced and consumed wheat..The variant was different and is not commercially made anymore. Native grains by region for both rice and wheat are no longer grown …in the 60s with green revolution modified and high production varieties plus pesticides came into play. If you want to eat better wheat preferable to eat native grains like Khali, Sona Moti, emmer. Organic stores claim these are pesticide free etc. The cost is 4 to 5 times that of regular wheat. Minimum 135rs to 240 rs a kg

I’ve used 2 brothers organic Khapli wheat but it’s expensive if your wheat consumption is high.. we can manage on 2 kgs a month as we’ve replaced daily wheat with Jowar, ragi, and other millets.

But its worth considering a switch to at least organic regular wheat  .. especially if you eat chapatis daily

MP Sihori is one of the best. Based on inputs given to me during Pillsbury days.

Our DNA/ genetics/ physical form is way older than our grandparents. It has not changed at least in the last 10k years. And fire/ cooking was discovered 300k years back. So that is the period (300k to 10k) when our bodies evolved into what they are now. So for me based on first principles, “natural food” to humans is what we use to eat in that period as hunter-gatherers. 

Agriculture is a very modern phenomenon and is just industrialisation of food. IMHO

Yes but as hunter gatherers we used to move around a lot and not park ourselves in one place doing some apparently cerebral exercise.

Exactly that is why we need to compensate it with gym which is not natural to us either. But we need to as we can’t afford to move that much. If you could that is better than gym.

I have been doing a lot of rucking within metro stations, and last mile connectivity

That is good. Like Europeans. They tend to walk a lot from whatever I’ve seen. The heavy hamburgers shaped folks are more in the US. Concept of MEGA popular there. It used to take an effort to find a fatty in Milan or even Naples.

Adding comments of Dr Subodh Pandit, my go-to-guru for anything in health and medicine.

I agree with your grandma- eat everything BUT in moderation. The guide to moderation is your BMI, which should be consistently in the normal range. Secondly be regular in your eating habits, its quantity and timing. Nothing except plain water in between, with regular exercise plan as per your body. There are many mobile apps available which should guide you. Do something which you can do for the rest of your life. No excuses like Sundays, party, or morning breakfast with cyclists etc.etc. In olden times it was fairly easy to follow as there were no distractions like easy travel etc. This is a big price which our generation is paying under the name of development to make life easy and comfortable.

Coming to your direct question of vegan. We belong to a species called homo sapiens, because of certain obvious and genetic traits, one can easily differentiate one from the other just by looking at the face eg the pattern of teeth which tells us the type of food that animal is expected to consume eg a dog or a tiger has prominent sharp cannines, meant for tearing hence non-veg. A cow or buffalo have strong molars to grind for hours. used to crush the cell wall made from cellulose, hence herbivores. the latter is fibre which is not digested, hence a bulky stools.

Humans on the other hand have delicate teeth and a mixture of incisors, cannine and molars. We have a big brain and so to suit the teeth, learnt the art of creating fire, hence cooking. we have a comparative small sized stomach with a comparative short gastric emptying time, hence moderation. An empty stomach sens signal interpreted as hunger. nor do we have a gizzard found in animals who are strict vegans. in addition humans have a specific enzyme structure which can digest all carbohydrate, fat and proteins in moderation once again. Nowadays a stress is made on anti-oxidants, found in sour, bitter and spicy taste which should be compulsory. Old diets had a pinchful of achaar, chutney etc which gave those.elements. It was based on logic and observation of disease free rather than evidence based statistics. Eat to live and not live to eat. So no time pass binging and a BIG NO to packaged food. One should eat a freshly prepared home food with a mixture of all that I have mentioned.

Nor does vegan diet prevent cancer. Double blind study, mind you – from WhatsApp university, shows no appreciable evidence on this. Yes, cancer colon is less, but the incidence of heart related deaths are more. All controversial, but from 45 yrs of practice, I can vouch that stress and worry about the future will definitely shorten your life span. Our ignorant rural friends, whose concept of enjoying life does not include partying, show a markedly reduced incidence of illnesses.